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StarCraft «Defence vs Attack»

StarCraft «Defence vs Attack»

Just equipped my first THSS on my Sergeant. Immedietly started dying to things I never died to with LC.

With no specific melee skill and both melee and toughness attributes at level 4 I would push something close to 100% accuracy on basic stealers and maybe 92-94% on the morphs.

With THSS no melee skill same attributes I get about 93% accuracy on basic and 83 on morphs.

While 83% accuracy still seems like a lot and it equates to over a 4 in 5 chance of me surviving an encounter, I repeatedly die to scythes and claws, even with its buffed defense bonus.

Based on what you (SIlverleech) said earlier, if each claw counts as a seperate weapon when rolling for attacks then I would assume im stacking 40% accuracy and 40% defense on each attack. So if the TH only counts for offense (20%) and the SS only counts for defense (30%) then the THSS is a direct downgrade of the LC. Also hes holding them reversed hands. Looks weird and even in the description of the SS it states «held in the left hand».

It’d be great if we knew exactly how melee combat was resolved.

LC give you a higher chance to kill in SH, but the THSS give you a higher chance not to get killed, particularly when in Guard mode.

That of course can’t be applied 1:1 in Ascension, which has no draws (and no Guard Mode), and that could well be the cause of underwhelming THSS performance.

Ascension also has quite a few multi-HP targets,against which having more attacks (and thus a chance to remove more than 1 HP per action)also is an advantage.

@aulbath, while those tabletop dice values certainly explain why the LC is better at killing things, they don’t take the Storm shield into account — which reduced enemy dice rolls by 1, upping survivability. The issue I was having, and now Mercutian as well, is that LC seems to provide more survivability as well outperforming in virtually all aspects. Even when I’m not engaging and presumably striking second, I don’t know how combat resolves though, so it may be like the tabletop and the rolls may be simultaneous.

@mercutian, that’s the same experiences I have been having. Except you mentioned each claw attacks once, which I wasn’t considering at the time. In that case if LC engages and resolves TWO attacks at 40/40 rather than 1 at 30/20 which is a lot more powerful than I had originally thought. Again, all this is speculation as we can’t really pierce the veil of combat resolution.

@jackx I never really noticed, but you’re right. I’ve yet to see a draw. I’ve had my LC SGT resolve combat by only scoring one hit off an engaging genestealer, and kill it in the following round, but I’ve never seen a break with no sort of damage. Maybe the game rerolls draws to force a conclusive resolution to each round of melee combat? I’m curious to know how the engine resolves combat, if only to put my suspicions to rest.

Lightning claws are indeed ridiculous lol. I had my doubts considering the thought of going melee with genestealers who are biologically built for melee to be suicide and well that Hard mission ended up being a cakewalk.

I DID suffer two casualties (both to two seperate broodlords whom it was my first time running into) but I had my sarge at the back and he was taking down anywhere between 1 to 4 GS that would approach him maintaing the rear. I had quick saves ready but I never found the need to actually quick load (although maybe I shoud have since there may be a chance I could save my two melee marines who still haven’t hit lv 3. )

my stats on him are not as impressive as OP’s but yeah the point remains I am loving the LC

edit: I do hope the THSS gets a buff or something since I’m not at the level for them yet but from what others have said they seem to be irrelevant in comparison to the claws

I did some messing around with the LC after I realized how powerful they were. If I wanted to take the time and be ready with a bit of quickloading I could easily get as many kills as I wanted before I became bored.

Mind you all of this power leveling was to get the THSS.

More to consider. Because you get the LC first, hovering over each hand in your inventory shows +20% accuracy and defense. This leads you to believe that theyre counted as one weapon being that you have to equip both hands and theres no difference between the stat list.

Compared to the THSS you can see that the TH specifically has +20% accuracy and the storm shield specifically has +30% defense meaning each hand is couted seperately when tallying up a melee encounter. Thus one can surmise that each LC at + 20% A/D totals to 40% during the encounter. I can practically guarantee this is the case as when attacking with either weapon, the difference is accuracy is approximately 20%, exactly the difference between the one TH and the twin LC.

Euro 2016 tactics: England in danger of forcing round pegs in square holes

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Harry Kane and Jamie Vardy scored 49 Premier League goals between them this season and seem to have formed a strike partnership which might be remembered as this generation’s Owen & Heskey or Shearer & Sheringham.

Leading goalscorer Wayne Rooney is fully fit for an international tournament for the first time and Dele Alli has been a revelation, looking entirely non-frazzled by his rocket-like ascent from lower league football to the world stage.

The likes of Adam Lallana, Raheem Sterling, Jack Wilshere and Ross Barkley are all vying for positions in midfield too — England’s strength is definitely in their attack this summer.

But once again, England have a problem.

The right players for the system

Roy Hodgson loves his team to play a 4-3-3 which means that Vardy and Kane partnership may never come to pass. Unfortunately, his hopes that Danny Welbeck and Raheem Sterling would arrive uninjured and in-form have been dashed ahead of the tournament — Welbeck in particular is a huge loss — but rather than change the system to suit the players, Hodgson has gone Full England Manager and is now trying to accommodate the wrong players in the right positions.

Although England have some excellent attacking players, none are especially great in those wide attacking roles. Welbeck is a tireless worker, gets stuck into defensive duties and has years of experience playing wide in midfield as well as a central striker and his absence will be sorely missed. While not the kind of superstar who can change a game on his own, Welbeck is a team player and makes England better as a collective.

Jamie Vardy, likely to take his place, is superb as a central striker, running in behind defences and popping up at the back post to score tap-ins, but is not a left winger — no matter how much Hodgson wishes he would be.

Turkey exposed England’s weakness in that regard in a friendly at the end of May. Vardy, a striker, needs to stop the man on the ball being allowed to turn here:

But a player used to closing down high up the pitch has a different skill set to one who stops passes being made in his own defensive third.

Vardy doesn’t stop the pass and England’s shape means he isn’t able drop deeper to cover Danny Rose wide on the left.

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Danny Welbeck, by contrast, regularly helps win the ball back in his own half.

Hodgson’s other big attacking dilemma is working out how on earth to get Wayne Rooney in the team. Is he good enough in midfield to play there yet? Probably not. Is he better than Harry Kane as a central striker? Definitely not. Is he fast enough to play wide right?

The most likely XI Hodgson will play is his favoured 4-3-3 with Rooney and Vardy on the wings.

The team is balanced on paper, with Eric Dier supported by Jack Wilshere in midfield and Dele Alli allowed to move forward and make it a 4-2-3-1, but when England attack they lack strength on the wings and become very narrow.

Vardy isn’t a winger, neither is Rooney, and playing those two out wide doesn’t get the most out of them. As a number nine, Vardy is a dangerous striker. As a left winger, he’s alright. Sure, he can run quite fast, but at international level you need a bit more than that to go past a man and send in a cross.

Rooney doesn’t have his pace to rely on and has become a player who slows down and controls play, which means he naturally drifts inside and the shape becomes more like this.

There’s no width and the centre is too congested, meaning the full-backs have to push really far forward. Jack Wilshere and Dele Alli love to attack too and once that happens, England are vulnerable and just waiting to be hit on the counter-attack.

But they do seem to be getting better at managing that.

Balance of defence vs attack

Something that England managers have almost always failed to get right is the balance between defence and attack. Eric Dier came along at exactly the right time for Roy Hodgson and makes this team work.

Against Turkey, Dier did the thing that he does. That thing is sitting in the centre circle and making sure England have defensive cover.

Where in past England players have been guilty of charging forward and getting caught out, now the Spurs trio of Dier, Danny Rose and Kyle Walker do something called «communicating» and fall back to allow the attacking players — who have gone steaming up the pitch — to take risks with their passes, knowing there is cover behind.

It’s not perfect yet and even though Dier rarely leaves his station, England still get caught out on occasion. We looked earlier at how Jamie Vardy and Raheem Sterling aren’t fantastic at defending, which is how Turkey scored their goal in that friendly, but if we look at it from a different angle, the problems with Hodgson’s system and these players becomes clearer.

England’s back four are one section and the attacking five another unit entirely. To defend well, a team must defend as a collective. Italy aren’t the best attacking side ever but are always incredibly well drilled defensively and do well in tournaments as a result.

It takes one pass to completely rip England’s team apart and there is nothing Eric Dier can do to stop it. The midfielders are guilty of focusing on attack for too long and Turkey get in behind, cross the ball, and the defence is in bits trying to prevent the goal. They fail against three attacking players.

Why Roy loves Wilshere so much

England aren’t great at keeping possession, since unfortunately the default coaching tuition in many parts of the country involves sayings like «safety first» and «get it away!». These things stick in the minds of young players but England are better suited to a quick, direct counter-attack game anyway — so why not do that?

Jack Wilshere is one of Hodgson’s favourites and his ability to turn defence into attack is exactly why.

Wilshere often takes the ball to feet with his back to goal and has the ability and confidence to turn and run straight at an opposing team, directly through the middle. Not many teams in world football have a player like this.

Wilshere’s fearless darts into the heart of opposition defences allows the entire team to move forward without having to send a long ball up to the strikers.

If England play it long, one of Vardy, Kane or Sterling/Rooney need to be high up the pitch to collect the ball and either hold it up or get towards the box. This leaves the team short of defensive cover, especially in the wide areas, as three players stay further forward. Barcelona get away with that tactic in La Liga but don’t try it in the big matches.

Instead, by having a player like Wilshere drive the team forwards, the full-backs can also join in the attack, giving England width on the counter-attack, allowing the wide forwards (Vardy/Rooney) to drift inside to their natural position.

England have some great players but some key individuals are missing through injury and others are out of form. The possible strike partnership of Vardy and Kane — potentially the most lethal partnership available to any team in Euro 2016 — probably won’t start together because Hodgson wants his players to play a 4-3-3, and that system makes the team defensively vulnerable.

There are only a few days until the tournament starts, which means English in-built pessimism is due to give way under another overwhelming tide of mild optimism until the first ball is kicked.

«Wait. maybe we could win it!» fans will think one after the other, and before you know it, England are definitely going to win the tournament, a semi-final place is considered a massive failure and an investigation is ordered into the country’s football development from grass-roots right up to the Premier League to ensure nobody ever gets so unnecessarily excited again.

People never fail to get swept up in the buzz that surrounds England’s chances but only the most optimistic and deluded ever truly think the next tournament might be different.

Defence vs. Attack

Usually, it is the games between Barcelona and Real Madrid that are the title deciders, with the fact that whoever wins the match will probably go on to win the League only stoking the already intense rivalry. Nowadays, and over the past couple of years, it has been the games between Barca and the other team from the capital, Atletico Madrid, that decides who will be crowned the champions of Spain.

It has been this way for the past two years, with their second League meeting of the campaign determining the eventual La Liga winners. In 2014, a 1-1 draw at Camp Nou saw Atleti clinch their first title in 18 years and last season, Barca’s 1-2 victory at Vicente Calderon put them well on their way to their treble of trophies. It is a similar story this time around, albeit at an earlier stage of the campaign, but if there is a winner, they will set the tone for the rest of the season in terms of momentum and potentially pulling away from their opponents, particularly in the case of Barca.

Traditionally, there has not been much of a rivalry between Barca and Atleti, at least compared to the antipathy that Madrid have with the two contestants in this match, but thanks to what could be described as a ‘dark age’ for Los Blancos in terms of a dearth of domestic trophies, the stakes in this fixture have augmented considerably. Naturally, as the magnitude of the games increase, the animosity and acrimony increase with it, as players are challenging for 50/50 balls that little bit harder and getting in each other’s faces that little bit more aggressively. Boiling point is never far away.

There are certainly elements of a mismatch too. Luis Enrique’s men are the team that plays expansive, free-flowing football as well as being capable of adapting to the needs of the game to win by other means. Diego Simeone’s side prefer to wait, wait and wait a little bit longer so that their opposition seem to think they have a chance in the game before killing them off with a lethal counter-attack. They rarely have a Plan B.

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They couldn’t be much more different. They are the antithesis of each other, even if Simeone attempted to play more aesthetically-pleasing football for a while and if La Blaugrana are capable of pulling off counters that would have Cholo even giddier than he already is on the touchline. It only adds to the differences of opinion on the pitch because Atleti are proving and continuing to prove that you don’t need to have the best players in the world or play the most beautiful football to be the best team.

The clash of styles is confirmed by the fact that Barca have what is widely regarded as the best attack around, and that Atleti have not only the best defence in La Liga, but also in Europe, conceding only eight goals. An intriguing point to consider is the South American influence on this detail, with Jan Oblak and Juanfran Torres the only Europeans in either the Catalans’ front three or Los Rojiblancos’ backline.

Delving even deeper, perhaps the key clash of the game will be Diego Godin, arguably the best centre-back in world football, against his compatriot Luis Suarez, who is probably the best No 9 right now. The pair know each other well from the Uruguay national team, but any niceties will be reserved for before and after the game.

Brazilian Filipe Luis will be absent through suspension on Saturday and he will be sorely missed in a back four that is used to consistently being selected together throughout the season. Not only that, but the 30-year-old would have been the best bet to do a decent job on Lionel Messi. Injuries and suspensions are sometimes deciding factors in games like these, and Filipe’s absence could have serious repercussions for Los Colchoneros.

Overall, the prize for the victor and the clash of styles of play, coupled with the burgeoning rivalry between the two clubs and Arda Turan’s first game against his former employers makes Saturday’s game an extremely interesting one. It may be a little premature to be classed as a title decider, but a Barca victory would see them go three points ahead of Atleti with a game in hand, a healthy cushion that may be a step too far going into the final months of the season.

With that in mind, expect an intense, high-octane game where Simeone’s side will sit back and play for the draw, anything else being a bonus.

Your ideas on making an RPG Battle System

Darkdragonman

JaydRyu

What I want a system to resemble. A good set of mechanics based on the design of common sense resolution.

What the consumer wants is a system that gives them wow cool, mine is better than yours.

1. I would change the concept from
HP vs Damage(Resulting in a high HP and constant weapon increase)
Defence vs Attack(potential more interesting combat)

2. Very slow performance skill increase, but often specialization increase.
What I mean by this, is that rather than constantly increasing the prime skill like Melee as the ONLY weapon skill. To a
Melee with a large subset of weapons and attack bonuses.
Design example:
Skill ranges 1-10(1 rookies, 2 job min, 3 job competent, 4 vet..)
Specilization 1-3

Characters would roll number of D10 equal to there skill taking the highest die, then adding there attribute.
4D10(melee) + 4(Agi)
1 (Short Sword) + 1(Human Strikes) + 1 (Dragon Tail)
Specilications could change the secondary bonus die.
coming out to a 4d10(10,9,3,2) + 4 = 15;
Maximum die + 1 for each additional (10-SpecBonus)7-10

The defender would be building a similiar defence values.

Just a quick idea. This allows for a more common sense system in that your not constantly only comparing HP vs Damage. The Bonuses don’t offset too much since they only apply to the likely chance of rolling an extra +1 wich is determined on the die value.
(Hell I think I’ll use this system myself)

use MOS damage ie the higher the difference between attack vs Defence roll, you do more damage. This is then subtracted by a soak armour resulting in either a wounding system or static HP system.

Make teh system lethal, but allow for player bonus by adding a extra rule. I mentioned in another post about adding City of Heroes Inspiration design.

Lots of specializations allow a wow becuase it’s often and does tally up. But your performance skill still holds within a common sence range.

Anonymous

I would like the consumers to know that there’s more than Final Fantasy and d20 type systems for roleplaying games. Come to think of it, I’d like game designers to do the same.

Since we’re just talking battle system here, I’ll give you a brief rundown of my wants list.

1. Detailed Sequencing system:
In my own game, I’m using an Master Phase Count system. Essentially, every action has a start time, and an end time. Different actions, like drawing your sword, aiming a bow, or recovering your axe swing takes a certain amount of Phases. The crucial thing to understand the difference between acting first, and completing first. Just because a character has a higher speed or reflexes means he’ll beat the other player to the punch. Depending on what kind of action he is doing, it may take longer. All of thees actions are recorded in a non-ending fashion. All actions start at zero, and increment one by one. Every phase, you see if an action is completed, then it’s resolved.

2. Overhauled Damage System without HP
In my ideal game, there are several forms of damage. You have Structural damage (damage to bones, muscles, ligaments), Neuromotor (paralyzing kind of damage, usually nervous system damage), Neurologic (getting dazed/stunned or knocked unconscious for example, and perhaps most importantly, pain), Critical (penetrating damage to crucial life support maintaining systems. ie damage to one of the major internal organs) and Support (things like blood loss or hunger which can be life threatening over time). There are also «secondary» damage forms of mental and physical fatigue as well as Neuroses.

Damage is calculated based on the person’s Health or Willpower as well as their physical build. Instead of hit points, a cascading damage track is used based on the ratio of the character’s attributes to the damage class of the weapon as well as the damage type of the weapon (for example, a blunt weapon is more likely to cause massive structural damage, while a piercing weapon is more likely to cause critical damage). There will be hit locations, and the hit location will also partially determine which damage form(s) are to be taken.

The damage track will degrade character performance depending on the damage form. This avoids the «I have 1 HP left out of 100, but fight as well as I ever did» as well as the «my character had 1 HP left, got hit in the big toe and keeled over.»

3. The fear and confusion factor
Perhaps the most important element of fighting is being able to control your emotions as well as always being constantly aware of your surroundings. I’m tired of games that totally ignore the emotional and mental states of the character, assuming that the character, being the protagonist of the story should have no in-game repercussions for attempting any action no matter the possible consequences. In games, you don’t think twice about making your character charge headlong into 20-1 odds. They do this on the assumption, «but it’s what makes games cool. being able to rise above the traps of the mundane world». But in doing so, they have forgotten the cardinal rule of diminishing returns. «if everything is easy, it loses its appeal». Being heroic means pushing yourself to do something you don’t want to do.

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So there has to be a way to represent this in games. I posit having a limited pool of resources that you must allocate during combat. One of these is a Discipline Pool, and another is a Focus pool. All combat will generate stress levels that reduce the character’s mental and emotional states (by a level according to their Willpower and Concentration attributes). SO when a character is under a heavy volume of suppression fire, this generates a stress level and therefore creates a negative reaction emotional state. If the emotional state isn’t high enough, he can’t even act period. simulating freezing up or hesitating. He can ovveride this by spending his Discipline Pool.

This also works the same way for mental states (awareness). Getting all emotional can have some emotional benefits. for example, getting angry at your friends dying all around you can make you get out from behind your cover to override the suppression fire. But all emotions ultimately narrow one’s awareness. And being aware of one’s surroundings is intimately tied into how well one can defend himself. The tighter your focus is, the more effective you become at whatever your focus is on, but consequently you become less effective at everything else. including defending yourself.

4. Different Attack modes
Melee combat should be based on several fundamental principles. In actual armed melee combat, there should be a differentiation in how the attack is made. For example, you can swing a sword, or thrust a sword. Thrusting does impaling damage while swinging does cutting damage. As I mentioned in the damage system this affects the amount and kind of damage done. Moreover, this has other ramifications. When you swing a sword, you generate more force. but this force is also acted on a greater area. Less penetration but greater surface damage area. Stabbing generates less force, but it has a higher penetration. It also has a higher chance of missing. Furthermore, swing attacks take longer to complete and are harder to recover from than a stabbing motion making them overall more slow.

There’s a lot more I’d like to see, but I’m way too tired right now.

Dauntless

davenirline

Quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
I would like the consumers to know that there’s more than Final Fantasy and d20 type systems for roleplaying games. Come to think of it, I’d like game designers to do the same.

Since we’re just talking battle system here, I’ll give you a brief rundown of my wants list.

1. Detailed Sequencing system:
In my own game, I’m using an Master Phase Count system. Essentially, every action has a start time, and an end time. Different actions, like drawing your sword, aiming a bow, or recovering your axe swing takes a certain amount of Phases. The crucial thing to understand the difference between acting first, and completing first. Just because a character has a higher speed or reflexes means he’ll beat the other player to the punch. Depending on what kind of action he is doing, it may take longer. All of thees actions are recorded in a non-ending fashion. All actions start at zero, and increment one by one. Every phase, you see if an action is completed, then it’s resolved.

2. Overhauled Damage System without HP
In my ideal game, there are several forms of damage. You have Structural damage (damage to bones, muscles, ligaments), Neuromotor (paralyzing kind of damage, usually nervous system damage), Neurologic (getting dazed/stunned or knocked unconscious for example, and perhaps most importantly, pain), Critical (penetrating damage to crucial life support maintaining systems. ie damage to one of the major internal organs) and Support (things like blood loss or hunger which can be life threatening over time). There are also «secondary» damage forms of mental and physical fatigue as well as Neuroses.

Damage is calculated based on the person’s Health or Willpower as well as their physical build. Instead of hit points, a cascading damage track is used based on the ratio of the character’s attributes to the damage class of the weapon as well as the damage type of the weapon (for example, a blunt weapon is more likely to cause massive structural damage, while a piercing weapon is more likely to cause critical damage). There will be hit locations, and the hit location will also partially determine which damage form(s) are to be taken.

The damage track will degrade character performance depending on the damage form. This avoids the «I have 1 HP left out of 100, but fight as well as I ever did» as well as the «my character had 1 HP left, got hit in the big toe and keeled over.»

3. The fear and confusion factor
Perhaps the most important element of fighting is being able to control your emotions as well as always being constantly aware of your surroundings. I’m tired of games that totally ignore the emotional and mental states of the character, assuming that the character, being the protagonist of the story should have no in-game repercussions for attempting any action no matter the possible consequences. In games, you don’t think twice about making your character charge headlong into 20-1 odds. They do this on the assumption, «but it’s what makes games cool. being able to rise above the traps of the mundane world». But in doing so, they have forgotten the cardinal rule of diminishing returns. «if everything is easy, it loses its appeal». Being heroic means pushing yourself to do something you don’t want to do.

So there has to be a way to represent this in games. I posit having a limited pool of resources that you must allocate during combat. One of these is a Discipline Pool, and another is a Focus pool. All combat will generate stress levels that reduce the character’s mental and emotional states (by a level according to their Willpower and Concentration attributes). SO when a character is under a heavy volume of suppression fire, this generates a stress level and therefore creates a negative reaction emotional state. If the emotional state isn’t high enough, he can’t even act period. simulating freezing up or hesitating. He can ovveride this by spending his Discipline Pool.

This also works the same way for mental states (awareness). Getting all emotional can have some emotional benefits. for example, getting angry at your friends dying all around you can make you get out from behind your cover to override the suppression fire. But all emotions ultimately narrow one’s awareness. And being aware of one’s surroundings is intimately tied into how well one can defend himself. The tighter your focus is, the more effective you become at whatever your focus is on, but consequently you become less effective at everything else. including defending yourself.

4. Different Attack modes
Melee combat should be based on several fundamental principles. In actual armed melee combat, there should be a differentiation in how the attack is made. For example, you can swing a sword, or thrust a sword. Thrusting does impaling damage while swinging does cutting damage. As I mentioned in the damage system this affects the amount and kind of damage done. Moreover, this has other ramifications. When you swing a sword, you generate more force. but this force is also acted on a greater area. Less penetration but greater surface damage area. Stabbing generates less force, but it has a higher penetration. It also has a higher chance of missing. Furthermore, swing attacks take longer to complete and are harder to recover from than a stabbing motion making them overall more slow.

There’s a lot more I’d like to see, but I’m way too tired right now.

i like it. quite reality based. only with so many numbers, so man things to deal with and so many things to think about while playing the game. everything is crucial.

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